Asian Art Gallery Forum

[Arcboy]

I would like to know the history and the translation of the phrase in kanji.

The Golden Rule

Thanks

[Arcboy]

黄金律

This is the translation I got off a random website. As I understand it has many religious backgrounds.

[Gary]

Well, that is a title that can be used for this - but I think the real rule (composed by Confucius long before Jesus walked the earth) would be better:

http://www.orientaloutpost.com/confucius_golden_rule.php

-Gary.

[Arcboy]

What do you mean I could use that title? Is it missing information or meaning?

Yeah I saw that when I searched for the phrase on here but what does that whole scroll say? I wouldn't think that all says the golden rule.

[Gary]

The selection that I suggested "IS" the golden rule. It's not the title of the golden rule. It says "Treat others the way you want to be treated" or "Do to others what you want done to you".

That 3-character title you found just "feels" a little strange to me for a wall scroll. A Chinese person may not immediately identify this as the golden rule that you are trying to convey. They might even have to Google those characters to figure out where the title came from. I like calligraphy wall scrolls that can be readily-understood by all who can natively read them.

Note: "The Golden Rule" is a title given to this concept by westerners.

-Gary.

[Arcboy]

Well I really wanted The Golden Rule as my first tatoo. But maybe I would like the whole phrase.

Can you tell me how it is read, I think I was told it reads vertically. In that link where it shows the scoll, what does it say on the left side, Confucious? And then The Golden Rule.

One last question where does Kanji come from? I read that it originated from China but it isn't used any more. How does it differ from Japanese now? I will be doing some more research in this.

[Gary]

The closest translation that I can give you (which makes sense in English) is:
"Do not do to others whatever you do not want done to yourself".

That is what those 8 characters express in Chinese (also makes sense in old Korean Hanja).

---

Here's the history you wanted:

Chinese characters, known in Chinese as "Hanzi" have been in constant and more or less standardized use since the first unification of China under the Qin Emperor in 221 BC.

Japanese did not have a standard written language until the 5th century AD. This is when they systematically borrowed Chinese characters by meaning, and inserted them into their spoken language.

Note: Korea did the same thing about a century prior to Japan, and used Chinese characters as their sole standard form of writing until about 100 years ago. In Korean, this is called "Hanja" (same written word as Hanzi and Kanji).

Japanese writing which uses these Chinese characters is known as Kanji. The word "Kanji" is the Japanese word for "Chinese characters".

Japan also uses two other character sets. They use Hiragana to fill in holes between Kanji when grammar or other issues cause need for it. They use Katakana for approximating western words, titles, and proper names of people and places.

Even Hiragana and Katakana characters/strokes are based on Chinese. Even the pronunciation of many Japanese Kanji are borrowed from Chinese.

People are often shocked to find out how much influence China had on Japan. Beyond the written language, there is much more. Things like koi fish, bonsai trees, tea, paper, the printing press, tofu, and silk production are all things borrowed from China.

But in some ways, Japan was just another kingdom in Asia. There were times in history when the territory known today as China was actually a series of more than a dozen kingdoms (you could also translate "kingdoms" into "countries"). Japan and Korea were just other kingdoms (or empires) in the area. These kingdoms traded goods, ideas, language, Buddhist scripture, culture, food, etc.

At times, these kingdoms fought wars against each other. During the Tang Dynasty, a unified China fought a war against Korea. During WWII, Japan invaded and occupied China (even massacring more than 100,000 Chinese civilians). The worst may be the Qin Dynasty Emperor who may have killed a million people as he unified all the kingdoms of China and standardized the language in 221 BC.

This is a rather simplified history lesson - whole books and whole university courses deal with this issue in far deeper ways.

Cheers,
-Gary.

[Arcboy]

That is perfect information.

I don't mean to keep bugging you but is there a better kanji translation for the words

The Golden Rule or is this 黄金律 the best translation?

Thanks again.

[Gary]

The problem with this title is that most people don't know this as "the golden rule" in Asia. It's simply a Confucian proverb to them. Only those who know the western idea of this concept will understand the title that you are presenting.

If I used the title "Don't drain the pond". It would make no sense to you in English unless you had acute knowledge of Chinese idioms.

This idiom is explained here:
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/shufa.php?q=%E7%AB%AD%E6%BE%A4%E8%80%8C%E6%BC%81

You'd also probably never associate that title with "To kill the goose that lays the golden eggs" (which is kind of the western idiomatic version of this concept).

The reference is just too obscure, and has not crossed cultures completely to where everyone will understand what you are taking about.

In this case, you need the text of the proverb for it to make sense to native readers.

The title 黄金律 which romanizes as ōgonritsu and is pronounced おうごんりつ in Japanese may be better known in Japanese than Chinese. However, there are several ways to say "The Golden Rule" in Japanese, and some of them have a different meaning/origin.

They also say 金科玉条, which would be read as "The Golden Rule" but basically suggests consistently following a rule or policy to ensure success.

They even say ゴールデンルール, which is an approximation of the English pronunciation of "Golden Rule". This is "goorudenrūru". Note: This would be an awful tattoo in my opinion.

In Chinese, there is one 金科玉律, which is another way to say "The Golden Rule", but refers to an "immutable precept" or rather a non-changing idea.

There could be great confusion if you use any of these titles. I rate them very low for a tattoo and medium for a wall scroll.

Just because a title exists does not mean it is universally understood, nor does it mean it is a good choice for a tattoo.

-Gary.

PS: Moving this thread to Tattoo forum now, as it is clearly not a general question, but is rather about a specific tattoo issue.

[Arcboy]

Wow that was awesome! Yeah I guess I should have put thus in the tatoo area.

[Gary]

When you are ready, we can make you the tattoo templates (in 90 character styles)...
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/chinese_character_japanese_kanji_tattoo_service.php

Yours has kind of a technicality that it is know both as the text of the phrase and the simple title. I will let you count it as 3 words "The Golden Rule", so the cost will be $30 instead of counting "Do unto others as you would want done unto yourself" (which would be $65 since we charge $20 for the first word and $5 each additional in most cases).

Cheers,
-Gary.